Some corrections and additions to the Complete Peerage: Volume 9: Mortimer of Richard's Castle


MORTIMER of Richard's Castle

Volume 9, page 257, note i:
Hugh [de Say (d. before Michaelmas 1190)] and Lucy had a younger son Richard, and a daughter Lucy Ardern (Montacute Cart., Som. Rec. Soc., nos. 35, 36), presumably wife of Thomas de Ardern, between whom and her brother Hugh de Say there was a question of exchange of property (Rot. Lit. Claus., vol. i, p. 261).

Richard's charter for Montacute mentions a previous gift by another brother, Sir Gilbert.

Lucy's gift to Montacute was of land in Gevele, while the property said to have been given in exchange by Thomas de Ardern to Hugh de Say was the manor of Gifle [i.e. Kingston in Yeovil, Somerset; see Victoria County History, Oxfordshire, volume 6, pages 301-312].

[Item last updated 26 March 2017.]

Volume 9, page 258:
His widow [the widow of Hugh de Say (d. before Michaelmas 1197)] Mabel by Easter 1201 was m. to Reynold (-).(h)
Note h:
Curia Regis Rolls, vol. i, p. 413.

Mabel's husband was presumably the man referred to in August 1204 as Roger de Aumu[n]devill', when the sheriff of Worcestershire was ordered to cause William de Cantilupe to have seisin of the land which had been of Roger in respect of Mabel, his wife (Rotuli Litterarum Clausarum, volume 1, page 5). The entry similarly mentions the land which had been of Hugh de Ferrières in respect of his wife Margaret (the daughter and heir of Hugh de Say) and another in October 1204 similarly mentions the manor of Yeovil, which had been of Lucy de Say (the sister of Hugh de Say; see correction to Complete Peerage, volume 9, page 261, note a, below).

[Item last updated 26 March 2017.]

Volume 9, page 261, note a:
Margaret [daughter and heir of Hugh de Say (she d. apparently before Autumn 1242)] is called heir of Hugh de Say also at the time of her 2nd marriage, in 1210, but there is an ambiguous entry on the Close Roll of an order, 20 Oct. 1204, to the sheriff of Somerset which suggests that Margaret may have had an elder sister Lucy who, possibly on account of idiotcy or for some other cause, was excluded from the inheritance: Precipimus tibi quod facias habere Wo de Cantilupo seisinam manerii de Gifle [Yeovil] ... quod fuit Luce de Say aine fil' [sic] Hugonis de Say que est in custodia tua (R. Lit. Claus., vol. i, p. 12).

Evidently this relates not to a sister of Margaret named Lucy, but to her paternal aunt Lucy de Ardern (the daughter of Margaret's grandfather Hugh), whose presumed husband Thomas de Ardern was said to have given Margaret's father Hugh the manor of Gifle in exchange for the manor of Souldern, Oxfordshire (see addition to Complete Peerage, volume 9, page 257, note i, above). "Luce" in the published Close Roll must be an error for "Lucie".

[Item last updated 26 March 2017.]