Some corrections and additions to the Complete Peerage: Volume 12, Part 2: Winchester


See also "proposed" section

Volume 12, part 2, page 748, note g:
[Saher de Quency IV, 1st Earl of Winchester, d. 1219] His yr. br. Robert, who d. before 1232, m. Hawise, suo jure (after his death) Countess of Lincoln, sister and coh. of Ranulph, Earl of Chester and Lincoln, by whom he was ancestor, through his da, and h. Margaret, of the Lacy earls of Lincoln. See ante, vol. iii, p. 169, note sub CHESTER [1181], and vol. vii, pp. 675-77, 679, sub LINCOLN, where, however, Robert is confused with his nephew Robert, 1st s. and h. ap. of Saher IV, who d. s.p. 1217 (see p. 751, note "a" below). The identity of Hawise's husband is proved by Painter (op. cit., pp. 8-9), who makes the additional point that if she had m. Robert the nephew, their "daughter Margaret would have been countess of Winchester and overlord of the Quency lands."

In fact, vol.7 had been correct in identifying Hawise's husband as Saher's son, and there seems to be no evidence that Saher even had a brother named Robert.

This question was examined in detail by Doris Grace Roth in an article entitled "Robert de Quincy, eldest son of the first Earl of Winchester" [The Genealogist, vol.5, pp.221-225 (1984)]. She quoted a conveyance, in which Saher de Quency, Earl of Winchester, identifies Hawise, sister of the Earl of Chester, as the wife of his son and heir Robert. This evidence was first printed in the 17th century, and was reprinted in Ormerod's History of Cheshire in 1882. Roth also quoted the argument of Sir Geoffrey Ellis [Earldoms in Fee, pp.231-232 (1963)], that the reason the Quency lands did not descend to Robert's daughter, Margaret, was that Saher had been deprived of them in 1215 for rebellion against King John, and that Robert had also been a rebel. Instead, in 1221, Saher's second son Roger, who had remained loyal, was admitted to the lands.